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9/9/2013 1:09:16 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,261)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Quote from rodfree:
I am Muslim and enjoy life. Great to see Muslim men and women here.



Pants on fire????? ..... hmmmmmmm




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9/9/2013 7:31:28 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


He is a muslim in a free country, nobody is forcing him to be so,

He must just like 10 year old girls, slavery, thievery and murder.

Islam does attract a pretty weird crowd when it is by choice.

No moral person would go anywhere near it.

Psycopaths.

9/24/2013 11:21:19 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from quite_storm45:
why is it that you are condeming muslims and not any other religion?


Because of the nature of the religion itself.
Some religions are actually good, and my personal preference would be Buddhism, even though it is a philosophy and not a religion.

Of the big three, Judism, Christianity, and Islam, the written doctrine of Christianity is probably the best, in my opinion, with the figure Jesus being an excellent role model.

Islam would be by far the worse, with the main figure, Muhammed being a pretty disgusting character.

Herin lies most of the problems of Islam, in the need to emulate the main figure.

Extreme Christians are annoying.

Extreme muslims kill people.

9/25/2013 4:08:05 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

payote
Florence, SC
28, joined Aug. 2013


Quote from jim_a49:
Because of the nature of the religion itself.
Some religions are actually good, and my personal preference would be Buddhism, even though it is a philosophy and not a religion.

Of the big three, Judism, Christianity, and Islam, the written doctrine of Christianity is probably the best, in my opinion, with the figure Jesus being an excellent role model.

Islam would be by far the worse, with the main figure, Muhammed being a pretty disgusting character.

Herin lies most of the problems of Islam, in the need to emulate the main figure.

Extreme Christians are annoying.

Extreme muslims kill people.


I'll start from the top..
The nature of the religion, how bout human nature or mammalian nature for that fact: The lion kills the ox yes but they both drink from the same watering hole, a peac*ck can spread its tail feathers, without attracting a predator correct?

Philosophically:Buddhist were regarded as heretic's for renouncing the hindu Dharma and substituting their own. History is in the eyes of the beholder.

Jesus is a perfect role model but for whom? Whenever an ideal is super imposed it creates a divide. since before babylonians (needs cited) people have been oppressed. cause/effect. The same way slavery in the U.S. is a driving force for the "Fruit of islam" although religious leader's of orthodox islam reject this claims. to authenticity & charge it with distortion of Muhammads teachings, (another oppression and divide) Muslims swear by it like Christians to any testament to the bible.

Muhammad was a an orphan at 6yo his uncle, Abu Talib, who raised Muhammad took a detached and disproving view of Arabian polytheism and social disunity. (Typical in The big3)

"The divisive Arabian tribal organization with its blood vengeance and violence, was to be was to be transformed into a means of expressing inclusive brotherhood and respect for HUMAN rights. he (Muhammad) substituted for tribal feuds the "holy war" (jihad) to be made on unbelievers, IF THE LATTER PROVIDED PROVOCATION."
David keresh comes to mind, along with the KKK.

My goal is not to further create dispute and difference but to show similaritys we're all fighting the good fight just on different terms.

9/25/2013 1:22:03 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from quite_storm45:
why is it that you are condeming muslims and not any other religion?


You are not watching my posts and are apparently only reading the muslim ones.

I get into discussions on most religions, at least the ones I am somewhat read in, but bash Islam mostly because of the pure evil involved in the creation and further existence of it.

while most religions are fairly harmless, some have been used, or manipulated into evil.

Islam is written for evil.

9/25/2013 1:26:23 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from payote:


Muhammad was a an orphan at 6yo his uncle, Abu Talib, who raised Muhammad took a detached and disproving view of Arabian polytheism and social disunity. (Typical in The big3)

"The divisive Arabian tribal organization with its blood vengeance and violence, was to be was to be transformed into a means of expressing inclusive brotherhood and respect for HUMAN rights. he (Muhammad) substituted for tribal feuds the "holy war" (jihad) to be made on unbelievers, IF THE LATTER PROVIDED PROVOCATION."
David keresh comes to mind, along with the KKK.

My goal is not to further create dispute and difference but to show similaritys we're all fighting the good fight just on different terms.


While this is true, it is also stopped when reconized, Koresh, Manson, and Jones, are a few examples.

Islam grew in the times when it's behavior was tolorated and enforced by the sword.
Others have done this also.

However anyone who takes the time to read the text, will see that this type of perverted human behavior, is not acceptable in the 21st century.

9/25/2013 5:10:12 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

payote
Florence, SC
28, joined Aug. 2013


Quote from jim_a49:
While this is true, it is also stopped when reconized, Koresh, Manson, and Jones, are a few examples.

Oklahoma city bombing, david keresh, an eye for an eye.

Islam grew in the times when it's behavior was tolorated and enforced by the sword.
Others have done this also.

What of the crusades?

However anyone who takes the time to read the text, will see that this type of perverted human behavior, is not acceptable in the 21st century.


You said it not me.. HUMAN BEHAVIOR. there are pedophiles killers and thieves in every society. What makes yours better than theirs?
I used to be Christian can't teach me much and I'm not Muslim but i believe in human rights everywhere. Your years of hatred are in vain.

9/25/2013 5:42:23 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

payote
Florence, SC
28, joined Aug. 2013


I apologize I miss read your 1st two entries where you admited wrongs of the world.

I would also like some feed back from the Muslim community. Do you concur with my analysis? Or am I missing something?

9/25/2013 8:31:58 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from payote:
I apologize I miss read your 1st two entries where you admited wrongs of the world.

I would also like some feed back from the Muslim community. Do you concur with my analysis? Or am I missing something?


Actually most of what you say I agree with, and I welcome muslims to input here, however they will not.

Islam was created on lies, and perpetuated by lies, and it is completly provable, usually by their own writings.

I can, and will, prove anything I say about Islam, from islamic text.

Islam cannot handle a truthfull discussion.

First they will blame the jews,
Then the christians.
Then it's a bad translation.
Than say it must be in arabic to ubderstand, ( even though it has been translated into a dozen languages.
Then "it must be in context" something I enjoy shoving down their throats.

when all excuses expire, they say f**k you and run off.

I welcome, and encourage, muslims for their input

9/25/2013 8:35:09 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from payote:
You said it not me.. HUMAN BEHAVIOR. there are pedophiles killers and thieves in every society. What makes yours better than theirs?
I used to be Christian can't teach me much and I'm not Muslim but i believe in human rights everywhere. Your years of hatred are in vain.


The problem is you will have all the evils of the world represented in all societies, but the rules of the society contain them for the most part, however some slip through the cracks.

When murder, rape, and pedophilia is not only legal, but encouraged, you will have a higher percentage of the people actually doing it.

9/25/2013 10:11:24 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

payote
Florence, SC
28, joined Aug. 2013


K I'm listening... but to me even if your validations are/aren't true. i prefer having the knowledge that thesr issues exist. condoning them or not people still have free will to think and feel for themselves. A few scenarios: Actually this is happening right now. Our forefathers gave us our 2nd amendment rights to protect us! Yet!.. They try to take them away in the name of "safety" Owning a gun doesn't imply that your a killer, neither does traing courses on how to use it. but the instant you have a few bad apples, everyones safety is in danger.. don't you want the freedom to decide who the threat is? (There's murder)
*Also what of the mock owl and human sacrifices in cali by the... wanna say buildiburgs? Clearly murder.

(Rape) If a man picks up a young lady at the bar and she allows him to buy all her drinks, dinner pays for the hotel and makes sexual advances all the evening. and then the couple makes it to the hotel and she wants to sleep when sex was the variable for buying the high class hotel in the first place..(she uses him for money & a place to stay) lets say the worst case scenario plays out and she gets brutally raped.. do you think she will be playing guy in the near future or would she learn a little something about self respect?

Pedophiles are pretty easy. through the media sexy and adorable have become the same thing a youthful appearance is all the rage these days (miley cirus) even as far back as ghandi: he had virgins lie at his bedside when sick. what happened is only a speculation but men have always adorned the wide eyed innocents of a child unjaded by the ways of the world priest in record numbers are arrested. and politicians frequently have a passport ready for Thailand.

All These are horrible occurrences in society. But I must say through the darkness in some sick way theirs light through all the darkness. That sickens me to say but It almost seems as though the general public is outlawed to do some of the biggest business in the corporate world. Its sick yes but free will and a dominated subserviant attitude are not synonyms.

before I get my head ripped off I condone none of this. in order to have understanding you must be able to see both sides of an issue.

9/25/2013 10:18:51 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

payote
Florence, SC
28, joined Aug. 2013


Sorry for the rhetoric point is,our govt steals, kills, rapes (i consider buying sex a cousin of rape as well) & is fillied with pedophiles.

If I was gonna screw another man's wife and I knew the penalty would be losing my.. member. Id think a lot longer and harder than if I just had to worry about being a sinner in gods eyes sometimes you need extremes! Not as extreme as the crusades but just something to make you think, the punishment should fit the crime.

9/26/2013 12:34:36 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from payote:

before I get my head ripped off I condone none of this. in order to have understanding you must be able to see both sides of an issue.
ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

Seeing both sides is extremely important.

This is where I am attacked all the time by muslims and muslim protectors alike.
Not so much any more. the muslims have run off.
There is even an Islamic scholar here, 'uniquecover", who will not face me in a no bullshit, question and answer.

I have posted literally thousands of islamic quotes, with book and verse labeled, so there is no arguement.

The study of islam, is not in the Qur'an, as most people would think, in fact you will learn nothing about Islam by reading the Qur'an.

The religion is so sick, the normal person looks on in disbelief.

The literature is overwhelming, but scarcly read.


People tend to use the exception, as the rule, when judging this, bringing up isolated examples, that will happen in any religion, culture, race, etc.

And using these exceptions to counter what is the "RULE' in Islam.

9/26/2013 2:25:55 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

payote
Florence, SC
28, joined Aug. 2013


Ok but the qua' ran has to be the most cited book for Muslim community correct? And if the others are scarcely read.. how are they relevant? It seems as though the exception is not the rule.. if most Muslims are reading the Qua'ran. its also important to specify what sect your referring to as well.



[Edited 9/26/2013 2:27:12 AM ]

9/26/2013 8:19:06 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from payote:
Ok but the qua' ran has to be the most cited book for Muslim community correct? And if the others are scarcely read.. how are they relevant? It seems as though the exception is not the rule.. if most Muslims are reading the Qua'ran. its also important to specify what sect your referring to as well.


The Qur'an is for the sheep.

The Sunna is for the leaders, and the basis of Sharia law.

The sunna is the most important part.

The Qur;an is gibberish, literary garbage, written on a third grade level, goes in and out of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person, you never know who you are talking too, no context, no storyline, constant repetition of basic words.
And it is not in chronological order.

Unless you understand these things, you have know way of knowing what is abbrogated, valid or not.

Virtually all muslims I talk to here know virtually nothing of the religion, and the ones who do, uniquecover for example, will lie through his teeth.

9/26/2013 11:07:31 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,261)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


Quote from jim_a49:
The Qur'an is for the sheep.

The Sunna is for the leaders, and the basis of Sharia law.

The sunna is the most important part.

The Qur;an is gibberish, literary garbage, written on a third grade level, goes in and out of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person, you never know who you are talking too, no context, no storyline, constant repetition of basic words.
And it is not in chronological order.

Unless you understand these things, you have know way of knowing what is abbrogated, valid or not.

Virtually all muslims I talk to here know virtually nothing of the religion, and the ones who do, uniquecover for example, will lie through his teeth.



...and then there are those on here who know next to nothing about what that are railing against but try to make a strong argument so that others become their sheep................baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa .... not happening.

9/26/2013 11:11:48 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Made no sense whatsoever.

9/26/2013 11:17:10 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
cupocheer
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (252,261)
Assumption, IL
68, joined May. 2010


That was my point, Jim!

9/28/2013 3:46:58 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

alamri89
Ad Dammam
Saudi Arabia
28, joined Sep. 2013


What's up everyone!! I'm Ali from St. Cloud I'm new here and I'm Sunni Muslim insh'Allah

9/28/2013 8:52:04 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Why. you are in a free country.

Nobody is forcing you.

Are you a psycopath.

9/29/2013 6:59:22 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

dkluv123
Houston, TX
46, joined Mar. 2013


As salaam alaikum. Great to see other muslims on this site.

9/29/2013 9:12:06 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


And my question still stands..

Why would a person be a muslim in a free country.

what would inspire it.

10/7/2013 12:27:24 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

joe_grappler
Over 1,000 Posts (1,363)
Larimore, ND
44, joined Apr. 2011


Here's my take on why someone in America or Europe would convert to Islam: If you're a social degenerate that can't fit in and are looking for someone to blame for your failure to succeed in our society, it's the perfect religion. It's the ultimate "f**k you!" to your parents, classmates, and anyone else who didn't "get" you. And the more you isolate yourself from society and convince yourself they are the enemy, the more you can pat yourself on the back, knowing how much more pious you are over the stupid people around you.

10/8/2013 9:27:39 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from joe_grappler:
Here's my take on why someone in America or Europe would convert to Islam: If you're a social degenerate that can't fit in and are looking for someone to blame for your failure to succeed in our society, it's the perfect religion. It's the ultimate "f**k you!" to your parents, classmates, and anyone else who didn't "get" you. And the more you isolate yourself from society and convince yourself they are the enemy, the more you can pat yourself on the back, knowing how much more pious you are over the stupid people around you.


There is a lot of truth in that.

I was a hippie in the 60s and a rebellious punk, I converted to a Buddhist philosophy, from Christianity, much to the dismay of my parents.


I was a protester, and anything of the norm, was wrong.

Sometimes a person just has to grow up,

10/28/2013 1:50:34 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

iamsabrina
Tempe, AZ
22, joined Oct. 2013


Salam (:

10/30/2013 4:35:18 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

leather_lyle
Over 2,000 Posts (3,801)
Sacramento, CA
39, joined Apr. 2013


Hello people.I was just curious to see if fake Christians were attacking you.

I'm spiritual but believe in respecting others as they do me and living in harmony with myself and my morals.

I've known several Muslims and don't think ignorantly toward you for ideas others try to indoctrinate me to.

We should live in a world as decent human beings and not hideous beasts bursting with hate.

That's what I often see of others who's master taught peace and harmony.

Anyway, I hope all y'all have a great day and find the peace often not found in this world.

As salamu aleiykum.

10/31/2013 2:49:56 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Hi,

I'm not a Christian at all, but attack Islam with a furor.

I have to warn you, I am very well versed in the religion, with most of my studies from the 400 years prior muhammed, to the 300 years afterwords.

I also, like the real scholars question if he existed at all.
after all, there is not one stich of evidence he ever did.

11/4/2013 12:03:44 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

artist820
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,463)
Tehachapi, CA
60, joined Jan. 2013


Quote from nutsinsuits:
my art class had a discussion and I brought him up. The artist in the discussion had MLK's parade (guarded by police every 20 feet--a cop in each segment of the camera shot ----in 60's) and the other film had Muslims living in harmony, laughing and having a good time. When I brought up Malcolm and how he worshiped along side many races, I don't think the younger Anglo students knew what i was talking about. Thanks for picture.
BTW I signed up for an Arabic class and it was filled to capacity with another 20 students wanting to add. Young people are hungry to learn more about your culture, language and way of life. I don't know about my generation they are set in their ways; they are less tolerable, but kids are willing to embrace your ways, so open a thread and they will want to learn more. Someone should see if you need to get a vote on a thread. I would read it everyday. Start with lessons that teach the way you were taught in elementary. I am learning the alphabet and don't know anyone who is willing to help me. Put down places that will welcome us so we can introduce our kids to yours. Thanks.

11/7/2013 5:00:02 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Mancom X is probably not a good example.

He got into Elijah Muhammeds nation of Islam, which is a direct violation of all forms of Islam and would get him killed in another country.

11/16/2013 9:41:35 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
atl2coosbay
Coquille, OR
55, joined Jul. 2013


The Peace of God be With All the Believers....

Artist, you're right. Jim...if you were the scholar you portray yourself to be, then you would know that. Malcom X made Hajj in 1964, having prayed beside all other Muslims who had made the journey that year. It changed him. He left the NOI. He even changed his name to El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz. He was assassinated for doing so.

11/19/2013 9:02:01 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from atl2coosbay:
The Peace of God be With All the Believers....

Artist, you're right. Jim...if you were the scholar you portray yourself to be, then you would know that. Malcom X made Hajj in 1964, having prayed beside all other Muslims who had made the journey that year. It changed him. He left the NOI. He even changed his name to El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz. He was assassinated for doing so.


That's correct, Islam of America is a direct violation to the Islam written in the 9th century. and the punishment for wavering in just about everthing is death.

And BTW, I am not an Islamic scholar, however I have studdied it long enough,
(about 7 years) for the muslims to run and hide, and it prevents them from posting the total bullshit they are used to posting.
I have the Qur'an and sunnah in print, in several languages, so whatever I can't tell you off the top of my head, I can look up.

11/26/2013 4:10:55 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

hisham00
East Elmhurst, NY
30, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from fatima19881:
Over here!
Salam

11/26/2013 4:26:17 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

hisham00
East Elmhurst, NY
30, joined Sep. 2013


Salamo alaikom brothers and sisters

11/28/2013 5:01:38 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
atl2coosbay
Coquille, OR
55, joined Jul. 2013


Hey, Jim, you can read Qur'an in every language you want. If you're not reading the Arabic directly from Qur'an it is still only a translation that is influenced by the translator's culture and education. Learn to read the Arrabiyyah and you will see something altogether different in the language. In fact, a complete study will even show you that Muslim women aren't even required to cover their hair or faces. That's a cultural thing that was adopted into Islam. You would also learn that Muslims are commanded, when faced with arguing about the religion, for argument's sake: "Say, to you be your way and to me be mine."

11/28/2013 7:28:15 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from atl2coosbay:
Hey, Jim, you can read Qur'an in every language you want. If you're not reading the Arabic directly from Qur'an it is still only a translation that is influenced by the translator's culture and education. Learn to read the Arrabiyyah and you will see something altogether different in the language. In fact, a complete study will even show you that Muslim women aren't even required to cover their hair or faces. That's a cultural thing that was adopted into Islam. You would also learn that Muslims are commanded, when faced with arguing about the religion, for argument's sake: "Say, to you be your way and to me be mine."


I am afraid you are a little missled here, and I am not to sure where you get your information.

I get mine from the Qur'an and sunnah, where all sects of Islam come from, some have addons to these 5 sources, but "all" use them as law, and gods word.

First you do not need to read Arabic, that is an excuse used by muslims all the time.

Arabic is a very primitive language compared to English, and there is nothing in Arabic that cannot be translated into it.
Not so the other way around.

And the covering of women comes straight from Muhammed himself, and it suggests only one eye exposed.

Culture is another excuse, but the culture we are speaking of, comes from the religion itself, not the other way around.

And your last quote, you used, slightly altered, I believe comes from the first Medina period, and is misused all the time.

I think you are using a variation of.

"To you your religion, and to me mine".

This was translated into several similar sentences, and is used by apologists all the time.
I can get into this one in depth if you are interested.

11/29/2013 9:54:27 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
atl2coosbay
Coquille, OR
55, joined Jul. 2013


First thing you need to understand is that what you are calling excuses are, in fact, fact. Second, not all Muslims accept the sunnah as scripture. Sunnah is, in fact, only stories that were related by others about the things that were supposedly said by Muhammad. In order to for those things to be accepted as sound, they must pass a battery of tests. Most of them don't. In fact, there are a lot that don't. Third, Qur'an is the Arabic, not the translation. That why every authorized copy of Qur'an has the original Arabic text beside the translation. Fourth, Muhammad did not say that about the women's covering. And, Qur'an does NOT give any instruction for a woman's dress other than to lower the skirts and cover the breasts. I would happily provide you with chapter/verse and ahadith from Sahih Bukhari, but I'm certain you would only find other avenues of dispute, because your intent is to discredit, it is not to understand. It is people like yourself, and those who do practice the kind of Islam that you speak of, that give good Muslims a bad name. Those with a sound understanding know that the practice is that of middle of the road. They also walk away from disputes such as this. I have a few more years of study into this than you do, and I walked into it with an open mind, part of a research project. No, I am not a scholar, either. I do, however, know that not every language can be directly translated from its original and still retain the full meaning. I am not currently a practicing Muslim, but I do believe that there are many aspects of the religion that too many DON'T understand from those who choose to practice an extreme form of the religion that would never have been accepted by the Prophet to those who would twist words to make the say and mean things they are no meant to say, for the sake of meanness. Then use them as "proof" that Muslims are angry, spiteful people, whose only intent is to fight, kill, maim, and war with others so they can take over the world. Neither ideology is right.

Have a peaceful day.

11/29/2013 4:27:52 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from atl2coosbay:
First thing you need to understand is that what you are calling excuses are, in fact, fact. Second, not all Muslims accept the sunnah as scripture. Sunnah is, in fact, only stories that were related by others about the things that were supposedly said by Muhammad. In order to for those things to be accepted as sound, they must pass a battery of tests. Most of them don't. In fact, there are a lot that don't. Third, Qur'an is the Arabic, not the translation. That why every authorized copy of Qur'an has the original Arabic text beside the translation. Fourth, Muhammad did not say that about the women's covering. And, Qur'an does NOT give any instruction for a woman's dress other than to lower the skirts and cover the breasts. I would happily provide you with chapter/verse and ahadith from Sahih Bukhari, but I'm certain you would only find other avenues of dispute, because your intent is to discredit, it is not to understand. It is people like yourself, and those who do practice the kind of Islam that you speak of, that give good Muslims a bad name. Those with a sound understanding know that the practice is that of middle of the road. They also walk away from disputes such as this. I have a few more years of study into this than you do, and I walked into it with an open mind, part of a research project. No, I am not a scholar, either. I do, however, know that not every language can be directly translated from its original and still retain the full meaning. I am not currently a practicing Muslim, but I do believe that there are many aspects of the religion that too many DON'T understand from those who choose to practice an extreme form of the religion that would never have been accepted by the Prophet to those who would twist words to make the say and mean things they are no meant to say, for the sake of meanness. Then use them as "proof" that Muslims are angry, spiteful people, whose only intent is to fight, kill, maim, and war with others so they can take over the world. Neither ideology is right.

Have a peaceful day.


Nope.

The sunnah is the most important part of Islam.
You cannot understand the Qur'an without it.
Do you even know the correct way to read the Qur'an, to be able to understand it.

Remember muhammed, he is not in the Qur'an, only being mentioned 4 times, and at least 3 could be referring to someone else.

Ishaq and Taburi are the only biography's of muhammed.

"You have in the messenger a beautiful pattern of conduct to follow." ( Qur'an)

Pray tell, how do you even know what this pattern of conduct is, if you do not read his biography..???

Ishaq and Taburi worked just fine for the first 250 years of Islam, and even when Bukhari did come out, considering the speed of the news back then, it would be a long time befor it hit the public.

And lets consider the validity of Bukhari, (Which BTW even confirms much of Ishaq and Taburi).

Islam has a 100 year black hole, from which nothing emerges, nada, zip, zilch, nothing at all.
The Qur'an of today is 9th century, not the 7th as claimed.

Suddenly after 250 years, hundreds of thousands of pieces emerge, non of which go back in time, all are created in a 50 year time frame, all 250 years too late.

The Qur'an, and all of Islam is in True Arabic, (Classical Arabic), the same language Allah taught to Adam and muhammed, except the language was not invented until the 9th century.

All of Islam is a fabrication of the 8th to the 10th century.


Yes, many of the sheep are turned away from the sunnah, and only have the Qur'an, but the problem here is the Qur'an is gibberish, written on a 6th grade level, goes in and out of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person, you never know who you are taking to, no context, no storyline, and is not in chronological order.
It is a literary disaster, and needs the sunnah.
Giving the sheep the Qur'an, with the attitude, from the clerics, we will explain it to you, leaves the rulers in complete control, and the brainwashing of praying 5 times a day cements their position.

This is where the power lies, muhammed himself gave the orders to obey the clerics as though you were speaking to muhammed himself.


It is not mere coincidence the women wear Hijabs.
There are several verses on this order.
Women are treated like animals.

Qur'an 33;59

Noble
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful

Pithcall
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

Shakir
O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Yusaf Ali
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

11/29/2013 6:05:17 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


The problem here is that if you remove muhammed from Islam, there is no Islam, no Qur'an no muslims, the religion evaporates.

Removing Ishaq and Taburi from Islam, is like removing Mathew, mark, luke, and john, from Christianity.

Sure, it's all warm and fuzzy to pretend these writings, the basis of the entire religion, do not exist, or we don't pay any attention to them, but in all reality the religion cannot function without them.


Face it, Muhammed was a murderer, a thief, a sexual pervert, a rapist.
In Ishaq, the first documentation, 80% of the time he is robbing, raping, or killing someone.
You cannot just pretend these writings do not exist.
There are no such writings of the muhammed that is taught in the west,
and if you have some I would like to see them.

A good example is a new book on Islam that gets rave reviews.

It is called the "Seerah:, hmm sounds just like Sira, wonder why??/

Because it is a 21st century re-writing of Ishaq's Sira. You know, the book they say does not count, apparently it counts enough to write a completely BS book, that has similar, but completely different, accounts of the original.

Where they get the material for the new book is beyond me, no such material exists from that time period.

What you have to understand is that muslims are victims also, victims of an unscrupulous religion, that kills all in it's way, under orders from God.

I am amazed with how many muslims I speak to, almost 100%, who know absolutely nothing about the main person, and I deal with muslims all the time in another faction of my life.

The ones who do know, will intentionally lie to you, as prescribed by the religion, an edit that goes back to muhammed himself, about hiding the intentions of the religion.


It there was really an Islam like you claim, use a little common sense, they would be publicly condemming the one that already exists.
No they do not, infact they do not condemm any of the terror acts commited, other than the ones committed against themselves, by another sect.

How do you follow muhammed when he, himself, brags about being a terrorist.

11/29/2013 6:18:22 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
atl2coosbay
Coquille, OR
55, joined Jul. 2013


Not even close. Qur'an is the most important part of Islam. You can fully live an Islamic life without ever having read the "biography" as you call it. The collections of Ahadith you quote are not even considered to be sound by the scholars. They don't pass the tests. Even much of Sahih Bukhari is now considered unsound. Any hadith that is not supported by Qur'an has no basis in Islam. It is purely a man's

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[39:23] GOD has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for GOD's message. Such is GOD's guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills (to be guided). As for those sent astray by GOD, nothing can guide them.
[31:6] Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.
[7:185] Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things GOD has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which Hadith, beside this, do they believe in?
[45:6] These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?
[52:34] Let them produce a Hadith like this, if they are truthful.
[68:44] Therefore, let Me deal with those who reject this Hadith; we will lead them on whence they never perceive.
[77:50] Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?

Nowhere does the Qur'an say veil in references to a woman's covering. It speaks of the khimar...the covering...the same word is used for outer cloak. Men have changed the language so that it appears to say something that it does not.

Direct quote from a Muslim scholar

"The word 'hijab' in the Quran

Hijab is the term used by many Muslim women to describe their head cover. This may or may not include covering their face. The Arabic word 'hijab' can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word 'hijab' include, screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider.

The word 'hijab' appears seven times in the Quran. Five of them as 'hijab' and two times as 'hijaban', these are verses: 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17.

None of these 'hijab' words are used in the Quran in reference to what the traditional Muslims call today 'hijab', that being the head cover for Muslim woman!

God knows that generations after Muhammed's death the Muslims will use the word 'hijab' to invent a dress code that God Himself never authorised. God used the word 'hijab' ahead of them just as He used the word 'hadith' ahead of them (45:6).

The word 'hijab' in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim women's dress code."

I'm fairly certain that you have run up against the wrong person in this debate. While I don't have the time to school you on every aspect of what you wrote, know this: Qur'anic Arabic is the language in which the Qur'an was revealed. If you are only counting on the English translation of the Qur'an and the practices defined by Muslim extremists to support your findings, you are being misled. You appear to believe that English is a more relevant language, when, in reality, it is a language that was developed using numerous other languages. Very few English words are unique to the language. English uses Arabic, Latin, Hebrew, French, Spanish, German, Greek and other languages as it's base, deriving words from these languages and defining them based on those other languages definitions.

This is the case with all scripture. Many of the original texts have been lost and the language of the Torah and the Bible have been translated into languages by people whose ideologies are reflected in the translation. The Noble Qur'an, for example is one of the worst translations available. While the original text says head covering (khimar) the translators have thrown in their own flavor of Islam to and included a description of what they perceive it to be. Another example is Jesus message. I'm quite sure that He's quite unhappy with the Christianity of today, since he often said that people should not worship him but the one who sent him, often said he was not worthy of worship. He taught people to pray to the Father, and never said to ask for anything in his name. Some of the most used quotes from the new testament come from Paul (who used to be Saul, who was a persecutor of the Jews who followed Jesus) and were taken directly from letters the Paul wrote to the seven churches. It was Paul whose language is most quoted, not Jesus.

As to the actual Arabic regarding we have both spoken of: Lakum deenukum waliya deen
In this statement, deen (often translated as religion)means submission and worship by man for the creator, the ruler, the subjugator in a comprehensive system of life with all its belief, intellectual, moral and practical aspects. In short, a way of life. Therefore would more accurately be said, to you be your way (of life), and to me be mine.

11/29/2013 6:48:18 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Nope, absolutely false

First.

'Why would you even print a statement like this one,
It sounds like the cleric, the muslim scholar, who got on national TV and said,

Show me in the Qur'an where it says to fly airplanes into buildings."

This

Nowhere does the Qur'an say veil in references to a woman's covering. It speaks of the khimar...the covering...the same word is used for outer cloak. Men have changed the language so that it appears to say something that it does not.

Direct quote from a Muslim scholar

All quotes of BS come from muslim scholars, so that is not relevant

Yes it does, and just to say it was changed by man, is a pretty good indication he is lying.

I suppose he had a direct link to the eternal tablets in heaven, I doubt that.
What gives him the right to say the Qur'an was changed by man.
This is word for word from God, remember.
What do you think would happen to him if he stood up on Saudi Arabia, or Afganistan, and claimed this was changed.
This is an excuse for the west.

Remember 'Taquyyia", he is supposed to say that.


And yes, we know supposedly all hadieth are judged by the Qur'an, however what judges them, another man.

Remember Iman Bukhari looked at between 300.000 and 600.000, (( depending on who you talk to, ) hadieths, to come up with a little over 7000 that he deemed authentic.

7.000 out of 300.000, indicates one thing.
There was a whole lot of bullshittin going on.

And much of the hadieth cannot be judged by the Qur'an, because of the content.


None of the hadieths can be deemed authentic, not one, for a number of reasons. however it is not the authenticity we are concerned with, it is the story told, and the story you are to accept, under penalty of death.

There is nothing to prove muhammed existed at all, but someone probably did to set the model and there is a suspect.

The first time in recorded history he is mentioned is 60 years after the fact, and he is mentioned as the 'Mahood", ( the chosen one), a title not a proper name a title shared by Joseph, Mary, jesus, and even the 5th calief Malick.

Malick has more about him than is revealed in most Islamic studies, and was the first to gather the Qur'an, not Uthman, as is taught.
He also was instrumental in the conversion from Christianity to Islam, with the building of the Dome of the rock.
He also struck coins with the cross on them, and had christen writings on the dome itself.

Islam has gone to great pains to destroy whatever existed before the made up story in the 9th century, but some, ( very little ) has seuvived.

Just the fact they have a history before this is pretty good indication it is all fabrication.


No, you are not impressing me with your knowledge here,
I see a lot of copy/paste, from Islamic sites.

I also see The careless display of Quranic quotes, with absolutely no regard as to what period they come from.
a tactic used by clerics all the time.

11/29/2013 7:18:31 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
atl2coosbay
Coquille, OR
55, joined Jul. 2013


Not sure who you have been talking to, but the majority of Muslims I know have condemned all acts of terrorism. Many were among the relief workers that assisted after 9/11. Many have even served in the US military fighting against the extremists.

You can find as much negative propaganda as you choose to find. I choose to be free from the hatred that is in your heart for an over a billion people based on the actions of a few. Rather, I prefer to let peoplechoose their own way of life /religion and judge an individual on his or her own words and actions. And, by the way, if there is no proof (your words) that Muhammad ever existed, how can you have so much proof that he was such a terrible person?

11/29/2013 7:48:05 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
atl2coosbay
Coquille, OR
55, joined Jul. 2013


Wow! So much venom. And you wonder why Muslims quit talking to you. You have a very warped perception of what Islam is really about and you contradict yourself every other post.

You said that it is required that Muslims believe in Hadith. It is not. I quoted Qur'an in English so you could understand it. And, yet, you say that no Hadith are authentic, but you believe that Muslims must believe in them or die. Not true.

You accuse me of copying and pasting...the only thing I copied and pasted is enclosed in quotes. I could have said the same thing without doing so. It's a topic I've studied extensively and have often stopped Muslim men in their tracks with their jaws dropped having nothing more to say on the subject.

I am in no way attempting to impress you. But you are certainly making an a** out of yourself by twisting things into something they are not. In this you are no better than the Muslim extremists who would have their followers believe the crap that comes out of their mouths, enslaving their women, killing for the sake of killing, etc., etc.

Just because the Muslims you have been exposed to have left a bad taste in your mouth does not mean that all of them are the same. And I'm not going to hell for not believing in unsupported hadith or not wearing a scarf or a burqa or a veil. My belief system encompasses the whole of scripture from Torah to Qur'an, with the exception of the trinitarians.

People of every religious persuasion twist and use scripture to their own advantage. They take words that are given as revelation from God and use them to gain power, subjugate people, and wage war. It doesn't matter if those people are Jew, Christian, or Muslim. All of them are wrong for doing so, but have done so for thousands of years. I suppose you would have been supportive of the crusades? The killing, raping, ravaging, enslavement, and torture of people who had done no more than look at someone the wrong way, or were cross-eyed, or left-handed, or owned a black cat. Would they have been right just because they called themselves Christians?

11/29/2013 10:19:54 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from atl2coosbay:
Not sure who you have been talking to, but the majority of Muslims I know have condemned all acts of terrorism. Many were among the relief workers that assisted after 9/11. Many have even served in the US military fighting against the extremists.

You can find as much negative propaganda as you choose to find. I choose to be free from the hatred that is in your heart for an over a billion people based on the actions of a few. Rather, I prefer to let peoplechoose their own way of life /religion and judge an individual on his or her own words and actions. And, by the way, if there is no proof (your words) that Muhammad ever existed, how can you have so much proof that he was such a terrible person?


This type of answer is typical, and we should expound on it.

As an American citizen here you re probably exposed to /American muslims,
my 1st hand contact, is with 3rd world muslims.

But something I have always contended, because of the flexibility, and the endless contradictions in Islamic writings, the religion can go whichever the powers that be, want it to go, but the person, the shorned, sheep is still brainwashed into whatever he/she, thinks is Islam.

we have to make a distinction early here of the difference between Islam, and muslims.

Muslims are human beings, people, and susceptible to the influences around them for a direction, be it good or bad.

Islam is a written political ideology, and as written is pure evil.

A muslim in America never learns that muhammed was on 78 documented raids, into unarmed, or lightly armed settlements and caravans.
Why is that.

A muslim here never learns that 20% of the booty goes to the leader and his family, a precident set by muhammed, and still valid today.

A muslim here never learns about the massacre at Khaybar, it isn't in the Qur'an, but the Palestinian muslims at the floatila in Israel, used "remember Khaybar" as their battle cry.
I can go on and on of the actual events, and come up with documentation to support any of my claims.

I could ask you stories about muhammeds wives, and how they came about to be so, and I would get the same answers from you as I get from other muslims or clerics, which have absolutely nothing in common with the only documentation of such.

I even see sights like Al-Islam, one of the most accredited, telling absolute lies on almost every subject.
A dead giveaway is that in an essay, there are no actual quotes, just a scholar worming his way around it.

what we are doing here is also all to typical, and putting to much info on the table to be verified, so it is easy to call me names, saying You just don't believe me.

I don't use propaganda for reference, that is another worn out excuse.
My only references for anything I say comes from,
Qur'an,, and I use the top 5 translations.
Ishaq
Bukhari
Taburi
muslim

I may quote the study held by Cambridge in the 70s and 80s, when scholars converged on Islam for a fact finding mission.
It turned out everything supplied by Islam was forgeries, or missdated by hundreds of years.
They don't even try anymore, and run from all confrontation.
You cannot even get a public debate, something I want to see accomplished, with scholar from both sides, on a televised platform.

11/29/2013 10:33:06 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from atl2coosbay:
Wow!

You said that it is required that Muslims believe in Hadith. It is not. I quoted Qur'an in English so you could understand it. And, yet, you say that no Hadith are authentic, but you believe that Muslims must believe in them or die. Not true.

?


You are also twisting around what I said.

I did not say all muslims believe in hadieths, and to clarify this I will say most never even read them, these are handed out by the Clerics, They will use them for sermons and reference, but will keep the sheep from them.

If I went to a Christian preacher, and asked him about jesus, he would shower me with stories, show me the books, give me copies to read.

If I ask a muslim cleric about muhammed, he will tell me whatever stories he is used to telling, but when I ask him to show me in writing, he will not do so.

He may give me a 21st century BS book, all about another person altogether,
but he will do whatever he can to discourage me from reading the actual text.


And yes, being anti-Islamic is a death sentence, not here yet, but all over in muslim countries.
It is also the main reason for honor killings, and is at the disgression of the father what the crime was, and even refusing to wear a hijab qualifies in places.

Apostasy is a death sentence.
Blasphmey is a death sentence

The list goes on.


No islam is an evil religion, evil to the core, and because of the evil, you will have a higher percentage of people who actually follow it, and you do.

90% of the world terrorism is committed by muslims. 22.000 acts since 9/11.
91% of the honor killings.

11/29/2013 10:48:23 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from atl2coosbay:
Blasphmey And, by the way, if there is no proof (your words) that Muhammad ever existed, how can you have so much proof that he was such a terrible person?



This statement is very important, and needs to be understood.

Most scholars agree muhammed was a composite person, and there was probably a model for the actions. but there is no way to prove anything here.
There is very little in writing that survived the years.

However it is the written word, the person created, invented, in the 8th and 9th century, that is at the heart of the problems.

Remember, it is convert or die, with the only exceptions being dhimmies.

It is this person and his laws, and his pattern of conduct, of rob, rape, and kill, that influenced over 500 jihads into Europe.

It is the person created, working for God, and collecting the spoils of rampant thievery, because God wants it that way.


As I said, muslims, and Islam, are two different things.
Islam was told a thousand years ago they needed to re0write their religion and never did so.

It was fine for 1200 years, but now in the 21st century a person looks into the writings it thrived on, as horrendous.
The writings of Islam have got to be the most vile books ever written, and it is these writings that will always survive, not the views of the American cleric down the street, regardless of how nice he is.

islam is for all time and cannot change.


And you will not see Islam standing up and saying these books are no good.

Sure, a cleric will say that to you, a westerner, but is he denounces them in a muslim country, he will be beheaded quickly.

11/29/2013 11:56:36 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from atl2coosbay:
Wow! So much venom. And you wonder why Muslims quit talking to you. You have a very warped perception of what Islam is really about and you contradict yourself every other post.

?


Please show me where I contradicted myself.

11/30/2013 7:50:44 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
atl2coosbay
Coquille, OR
55, joined Jul. 2013


There is something very interesting going on here. First, even though I defend the Qur'an, I do not defend the acts of terror, or even the religious institutions that use the books to create the sheep, as you call them. I am quite aware of the rubbish that is spewed from the mouths of clerics and the hatred that some sects... The majority, in fact, hold for non-Muslims. Even the watered down versions that are taught here in the US. I've read all the books of hadith that you listed and then some. I know how much garbage they are and how they have been used. Yes, so much of it is garbage and created to invite and incite hatred. Second, because of that, and the fact that I am an independent thinker who recognizes this, I do not practice Islam, nor do I call myself a Muslim. I do understand what the religion is supposed to be, based strictly on what is set forth in Qur'an. The presentation and the practice are entirely different than the intention. It is for the same reasons that I don't practice Christianity.

I recognized, long ago, that religion is a way to control the masses, to stop people from thinking for themselves. It is concocted by governments and people who want power and has nothing to do with the original intent of the message.

I also defend parts of the Bible, but recognize the changes in the delivery. It was constructed as a way to control the masses and keep them in line so that Rome could rule the world. And, which also calls for the death of disbelievers and those who reject the teachings.

That does not mean I have to be a bible-thumping extremist who goes around blowing up abortion clinics.

That being said I don't disagree with your presentation of how Islam is practiced and taught in some areas of the world. Nor do I disagree that much of what is called Islam is pure evil, and why I reject hadith.

There is, however, much good that can be found in the Bible and the Qur'an. There is much good that could result from the teachings if people were encouraged to learn and practice for themselves.

But you know, as well as I do, that the majority of the acts of terror are committed by a small minority of people, not by the majority. In Muslim countries, like the ones you describe the majority has no choice but to support the leadership or lose their lives. That doesn't mean they agree.

And while I can't wrap my mind around the kind of hatred that you have developed for every person who claims Islam as their religion, I will always give our men and women in military service their props. Without you, neither of us would be free to openly express our opinions on this forum or on other topics.

11/30/2013 8:58:21 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Now, I fully agree with your last post.

The worlds oldest profession, "playing God", comes into play here.

Religions were needed to neutralize the countries, the societies in which the people live, be they good, or bad. They established a common ground, a set of rules for the society to function, however some religions do not work and play well, with others.


Myself, I am mostly native, with ties to the northern mid-west, I was raised in a strictly protestant family, real bible thumpers, sunday school, confirmation, the whole ball of wax, and converted to Buddhism in the old hippie days, (Nichren Shoshu),
I am long since "titan",( not practicing). but carry with me the Buddhist teachings, in my personal life.
Now I consider myself an atheist.

I got into Islam, a little, with the Qur'an, after the towers were attacked, however at that time there was not a lot of information available, and The religion was taken at face value, there was nobody questioning what was written.
"All religions are pathways to the same God", was the general assumption.

An event about 5 years ago, here in seattle changed my life,
Google, (Jewish federation center).

a very dear friend, Pamela Wacther, was murdered by a muslim.
He screamed in court,
"I'm going to heaven, I killed Jews."
I sat through the entire trial, and was appalled by the fact, virtually nothing was made public.

I could not rationalize, why are these people doing this.

I already had "Taburi", a several volume set, from 40 years ago when I worked at a used bookstore, and finally sat down to read it.

What I read turned my stomach, this is not a religion, it is the story of a warlord, a merciless serial killer, a mass murderer and thief.
a person who used his brutality for his, and his men's, sexual pleasure.

Now we are in a quandary, the religion is documented, it's rules are cast in stone, and it is not going to go away. You can have all the reformed clerics you want, and they cannot practice in muslim countries, only in the west, where they can get away with it.
But they are building an army as we speak, of brainwashed people who think they are following the religion of Islam.

I recognized brainwashing when I was Buddhist, chanting the morning and evening prayer 2 times a day, and chanting all through the day sporadically.
It is a powerful force to make a person adapt and develop a new lifestyle.

Sunni muslims pray 5 times a day, and Shia 3 times, both enough to become mindless sheep.


But the written documentation is not going to go away, regardless of how it is taught, in different places, it is what the people fall back on when the countries are overthrown, they revert back to the 10th century.

11/30/2013 9:21:12 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Some of the scary things about Islam, are shrouded in secrecy, and the control is with the leaders.

They are not taking on the problems face on, but rather shelving them as though they do not exist, and continuing an outward façade, while the original thrives.

Oh that's the shia, they do that, they are not real muslims.
Or the whabbies, they are crazy.
and so on, the excuses are virtually endless.

It was muhammed himself who issued the orders that the Qur'an not be taken into battle, in case it falls into the hands of the enemy, ( Lest they quarrel with you over it).

This hiding of the scripture lasted all throughout Islam's history.
Even Ishaq was not translated into English until 1955, and later for Taburi.

Just the fact "taquyyia" even exists in a religion, should throw up red flags.

Virtually every aspect of the religion has turned out to be blatant lies, not mistakes, but intentional lies.

From the creation, and the evolution of the rock Gods, all through the phoney history invented.
It was plagerized from Judism, Christianity, zoestranism, and Greek medical.
And not just talikd ideas from previous religions, but taking the actual charactors, and changing the stories to another person entirely.
All were turned into muslims, at a time when muslims did not exist.
Every single aspect is proven scientifically, archeologically/ anthropologicaly, dead wrong, but the people are ordered to believe it, under penalty of death.

12/16/2013 8:39:10 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

yusuf9
Richmond, VA
26, joined Oct. 2013


as salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu kayfa haluk ismi Yusuf wa masmuk al hamdulilah and inshallah I am a sunni muslim who follows the quran and sunnah upon the understanding of the first 3 generations the salaf as salah I saw a brother said one should not call themselves sunni and this is not true the brother is mistaken it is recorded in many sahee athars the narations of the companions may Allah be pleased with them that they would say their goes a sunni or salafi to distinguish themselves from those upon hizbiyyah and the mubtadis and the proofs are numerous as for those who say it is not permissible to call oneself salafi then what would they say about the hadith in muslim where the messenger of Allah peace be upon him said to his daughter I am the best salaf for you its their if you can read Arabic youll see it it is permissible to call oneself sunni the messenger said the yahoods divded into 71 the nasereens into 72 and my ummah will divide into 73 all in the Fire except one and they askd him which one and he said those who are upon what me and my companions are upon today and that's their sunnah so a sunni is one who clings to the sunnah and it is also permissible to subscribe to ahl as sunnah wal jamah the saved sect and the victorious group furqan najeeah so brothers need to stop making rulings when the ulama past and present have brought clear cut evidence for its permissibility nation of islam call themselves muslims and so do ahmadiyyas so it is permissible to call yourself with the above names sunni salafi to distinguish yourself from them as long as its not done for the purpose of showing off but I love you ya ikhwan and akhwat fisibillah wa salamu alaykum

12/16/2013 1:45:05 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


My understanding of Sunni, is they use Bukhari and muslim, is that correct.

1/26/2014 11:01:01 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


I would like to get into the creation of Sunni/Shia, but it is obvious there are no takers.

I only use factual information, direct from Islamic sources.

1/28/2014 9:37:57 AM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

diggumz
Columbia, MO
42, joined Nov. 2013


Salaam wa Rahmatullah

2/23/2014 6:37:52 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

ahmedsteve
Dallas, TX
30, joined Dec. 2012


Salam Ahmed from dallas tx

3/13/2014 10:50:56 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

shendy11
Depok
Indonesia
27, joined Feb. 2014


I'm a moeslim, but I think I'm not sunni. Hmmm I don't understand the meaning of sunni moeslim

3/14/2014 3:58:34 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from shendy11:
I'm a moeslim, but I think I'm not sunni. Hmmm I don't understand the meaning of sunni moeslim


When Muhammed died, he left no successor, and 2 people sought for the very important position.
The leader collects 20% of the booty.

Ali, muhammeds adoped son, and Bakr, his father in law, the bastard who gave his 6 year old daughter to a 50 year old pervert. were the main contenders.
Ali was more popular, but Bakr won.

There is a whole lot of other info in this, but basically these two forces fought each other and many generations later they would be Shia, and Sunni.

Sunni is Saudia Arabia, and the largest.
Shia is Iran.

Sunni commits 70% of the world terrorism.

Yes, the trade towers, Boston, and the next one.

3/23/2014 10:52:20 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

shendy11
Depok
Indonesia
27, joined Feb. 2014


Quote from jim_a49:
When Muhammed died, he left no successor, and 2 people sought for the very important position.
The leader collects 20% of the booty.

Ali, muhammeds adoped son, and Bakr, his father in law, the bastard who gave his 6 year old daughter to a 50 year old pervert. were the main contenders.
Ali was more popular, but Bakr won.

There is a whole lot of other info in this, but basically these two forces fought each other and many generations later they would be Shia, and Sunni.

Sunni is Saudia Arabia, and the largest.
Shia is Iran.

Sunni commits 70% of the world terrorism.

Yes, the trade towers, Boston, and the next one.


Ok, now I c, I'm not sunni but still moeslim

3/24/2014 4:57:12 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


When you start getting into Quranics. Kharijites, Whabbies and Shia, it gets kinky.

Like most religions it broke off into other just as comical belief's.
All, but the quranics use the 4 books of the sunnah, which gets in depth, describing the events of the indecipherable Qur'an.
The Qur'an is such hogwash, it cannot be understood by anyone, at anytime, the cleric needs to explain it to you, putting you at the mercy of his intentions.

The religion needs these 4 sources, besides the Qur'an.

3/30/2014 1:50:50 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  

leannwilliams
Las Vegas, NV
27, joined Aug. 2011


Whoop whoop #teamSunni

3/31/2014 11:12:00 PM Any Sunni Muslims here? | Page 3  
jim_a49
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (40,273)
Bellevue, WA
67, joined Dec. 2010


Quote from leannwilliams:
Whoop whoop #teamSunni


The same people who brought you 7/11, Boston, and the next one.
In fact, Sunni's commit 70% of the world terrorism, with Shia, coming in second.

Yeah team, Go Go Go.